ON Men being 'leaders' and Women being 'submissive'

I am cross-posting a reply, that I made on another blog today, in response to another sermon on man as leader and woman as 'submissive', and something, I've been seeing of late, some 'errors' on both sides, well, most surely on the 'men lead' side, but something I've been noticing on some of the Christian feminist side, well, something that is creeping in, that really is a lot like what I believed while in the world--

and that really begs for 'discernment' because it looks good, but there is something sinister about it, and it is in the 'degenderizing' that will come about--this is the issue that women confronted within 'secular' feminism, in Christian feminism, and its not widespread yet, but its there, and if not confronted, it will spread and its Just as dangerous as the 'man as king woman as slave-dog' teachings, so I will speak on it here,

and its that belief that 'women' who submit are complicit, are sinful, if they are abused. And I saw this, in a paper yesterday on Christian feminism, and its not the first time I've seen this. Now, if one is referring to the 'perpetuating' willingly the hierarchy, with no regard to the suffering it causes to children and to all women, THAT'S ONE THING, but where it can get dangerous, is when it becomes, a denigration of 'nurture' and 'submission' or rather, 'service' as a whole--and THAT, that is what we really want to be careful, to avoid, because then THAT is rebellion, against the LORD GOD, because as Christians, we are supposed to be workers for Christ, not workers of iniquity, and the latter, can be Very deceptive. Its one thing, to lay down one's life for others, its quite another, to join others, as a 'zealot' that is reactionary and rebellious, against All 'service', and it is here, where Judas, is a good example, of one who was a follower of Christ--but who in the end, chose to be a reactionary [revolution caused not by love but by anger and selfishness] and to betray Christ. We have to be Very careful here, this is something God has been showing me, in His Word, what I've personally been wrestling with, praying and yes, sadly, 'service' has been Extremely 'abused' by the Dogs who parade around as Christians [men] and it is NOT fair, exactly,

on the other hand though....we have to be very careful, that we are not falling for the deceptions that the enemy would love to snare us with, that we don't 'fall away' and this, this is something that I feel begs to be put out there, because one, we Don't want to be 'victims' but two, we don't want to become 'dominant' or 'insistent on our way' or abusers ourselves, but not only that, we don't want to 'shun' the appointed call that we are called in Christ Jesus, and that, is yes,

to be a servant. [no matter if they love us in return or if they hate us...our role, as servants in Christ, does NOT change there, in marriages however, this can get tricky, how does one not be complicit in her abuse and especially the abuse of children, and yet, keep that servant spirit, and its not as black and white, I don't think, and it takes a lot of prayer and discernment and a lot of time in the Word of God. I do believe one can be 'submissive' as UNTO THE LORD and still be assertive, to be a servant does not mean, to be a doormat, to be a punching bag, to be 'soul-less', but its IN the assertiveness, that I feel there is some wisdom needed here, and its not easy, within the intimate of spaces. Sometimes I believe we literally have to remove ourselves, and Jesus did say, Flee persecution, pray to be Delivered from Evil, that means, Evil in how one is trapped within something to be forced to Do evil, etc. But, what I am seeing a lot of too, here lately,

is what we really need, is to know what iniquity is, and how to not be workers of iniquity, and I do believe, this is where a lot of spiritual warfare comes in. But, anyway....my reply, on a discussion about 'men as leaders' and women as 'submissive'.

REPLY
I prefer not to even use the term 'submit' anymore because its been so abused, like many political cliches, its lost its true meaning. Same with headship, leadership, all of it.

I do want to mention though, something that I thought, in regards to 'leadership'. I know few men who are leaders, seriously. And so if I may, I will take another form of example, of 'leadership' to show something,

in All militaries, the 'leaders' of war, are the ones, who started out as the grunts. They don't become 'leaders' because they are placed there, they EARN their way to leadership, by first, being a SERVANT. And a SERVANT, who yes, is commanded, to OBEY and to lay down his-her life, with no retort. Would we really want to 'follow' someone in the military in a war zone, who had not known firsthand, how to fight? Would we want to follow someone in a dangerous situation who did not know firsthand, how to discern evil, how to protect his troops? Would we want to follow a leader who is stubborn, refusing to take wisdom from others, including maybe someone with a special gift in his unit?

Absolutely not, and it is for this reason, that the 'men' in their system of warfare have always demanded the ultimate sacrifices BEFORE THEY ALLOW ONE TO LEAD OTHER MEN. [excluding the administrative offices, that is, I'm focusing here on actual combat]

To be a leader, one must First, know what it is to actually be a Servant...the problem with the church's teachings, is that they omitted the 'have to be a servant' first which IS in the Bible, all over the Bible in fact, and put the emphasis on 'submit' on the woman. Men today aren't men, they are spoiled, immature, cowards, who most likely, no, Wouldn't step in front of a bullet to protect their wives. But they sure insist, on their 'rights' and 'entitlements' to lead and to assert their kingship.

Paul, himself, was an Example of true Leadership. And how, was he some softie who demanded respect as a Super Apostle, as a Shepard? NO, in fact, the other way around,

he worked around the full time [overtime] ministry he had so he would not be a burden to Anyone, he bore the marks of suffering in his own body, beatings, imprisonments, hunger, want...he gave his entire all to the betterment and the care of the flock, even to the point of his saying he was in distress until he knew, they were of good comfort and faith [Thel], THIS, was a LEADER.

He was a servant First, and foremost, and if Paul had of been married, I'm sure, he would not have been insistent on his 'rights' as he was totally devoted and had 'reverence' and 'fear' of the Lord [and he says so many times] and he would have treated his wife like a queen.

THAT, is what being a leader is, today, its the total opposite, today, its Iniquity that is celebrated, and manifested as the 'qualities' of leadership, in the perverse way that its taught in today's apostate church. This isn't just in marriage, its in the leadership in churches, in work, in parenting, you name it,

its so perverted today, that no wonder, there is so many problems today in relationships. The mystery of iniquity is running rampant, with total impunity, with the blessings of the 'false church teachings'. The issue isn't about 'roles' but about the perversion of what Service is, our Duty to serve the Lord with reverence and fear, no matter WHAT GENDER OR WHO WE ARE OR WHAT STATION IN LIFE WE ARE IN,

and THAT, THAT is what is truly lacking in our church and in our so called Christian marriages-families. Rather, today we have a 'secular' even 'pagan' interpretation of leadership-submission, with male as leader [undeserved and without merit] and woman as slave [undeserved and without glorifying the Kingdom of God because she is playing the role of Hagar, not Sarah], and this is why, I believe, we are having the problems, especially the passing down of iniquity,

to children and to their children. As a woman, who is yes, a radical feminist, who has grown and lived years with abuse [from childhood which was the root, of so much damage--the iniquity in our family that God has even shown me in what you would term a paranormal way, where I started asking Jesus, what is iniquity and how to break it], anyway, I have struggled with the iniquity within myself, both as a 'victim' of abuse [and living that continually in subconscious and that seed germinating in Me and being passed down] and with the iniquity in spouse that I was drawn to because it was what I knew, I married my childhood abuser time and time again. Why yes, one can be oppressed and be an oppressor too, and BOTH have to be broken.

Where we have to be careful, regarding submission, and something I am seeing a lot of today, is that we don't 'throw' service out the water with the baby, so to speak. Lately the teachings have been the blaming of women/abused of 'sin' for being complicit, for serving, loving, etc., this is wrong too, there is a very fine line, between 'enabling' and 'being a servant' or 'walking in that submissive love that Christ has worked in us', it is there that the enemy, can really do his dirty work, and walking out of that 'internalized abuse' yet remaining in Christ, is I think, where the test really comes in, and maybe this is why Paul stressed, submit 'AS UNTO THE LORD'. In the OT, in Chronicles, where it talks about the ruler of Syria, King Shis something or another, and God said to one of the prophets [don't have my Bible here, I'll get it in sec and put where] that He wouldn't' destroy Israel but that He would allow them to serve this evil king, so that they would 'learn service, as it is in the Kingdom of Heaven', etc.

If I have learned anything, this past year, struggling with these issues, it is on the issue of being a servant, what that really means, for All of us, and how it has been distorted and abused in the church [and in our world] against women,

on the other hand, how its also been ridiculed even by some who are rising up against abuse, in Christianity--here its very similar to the 'anti-feminine' beliefs within the far left, rather than hold Men accountable for their actions, instead, the feminine [or what is said to be] of nurture and caring is under attack, being told its complicit and now 'sin' because it feeds abuse,

both are incorrect. And I believe that is why Peter did mention about submission to those who are harsh--but here begs for wisdom, and God gave us Abigail, to show us, wisdom, she wasn't 'submissive' as in 'obeying no matter what', she quite frankly disobeyed her husband when she went to King David, and she struggled with those internalization's because when David asked her to marry [via his servants] she said, 'I'll be a servant to your servants', she had the mindset of an abused woman,

what did David do, he made her a WIFE, in those days, a WIFE, not a concubine, had more rights, in that patriarchal society....so basically, God said, 'this is how I see women, as Queens, not slaves', [something God showed me, about women and internalized abuse]. Abigail saw herself as a 'concubine', a woman with no worth, though she did Hear from the Lord and she did obey the LORD, not her brute beast of a husband...and because she Obeyed God, rather than submit to abuse-and others being abused, God saved her. And elevated her to the position that God ordained for her.

We could learn a lot from this, but its important to take notice, Abigail did not become elevated, by blind submission, to tyranny, to the point where evil was allowed to take reign, if she had of, she along with the entire family, would have been wiped out. She was a woman of wisdom--obviously, spending a lot of time in prayer because God used her, to prophesy to David and to keep David from doing 'evil'.

so, my point is, the teachings in the church today on submission and leadership, are so way off from the Bible, they are more about being a 'worker of iniquity' than about Christ, and its here that begs for discernment, and to close,

last night, was reading Thel where Paul talks about 'not having anything to do with the disorderly brother/or sister' so that they will feel ashamed, etc., repent, so forth,

we don't Have that in our churches today, there is no fear or reverence of God, of Jesus standing at the door, the true Judge, no, we have instead, the 'wives' submit and 'husbands lead' and

with no 'service?'. Paul says, we are 'appointed' to suffer, yet, I don't see a lot of Christians [other than abused women] in the West suffering, do you? Something, is really wrong, with the picture,

and I believe, it has something to do with iniquity. The problem isn't learning 'leadership' men, and the problem isn't learning 'submission' women,

the problem is, we are apostate, seriously, and we have no clue, as to what Serving Christ in fear and humility really is, because if we did,

we wouldn't have these ongoing debates within THE CHURCH, which is supposed to be the Body of Christ. We wouldn't have women leaving in droves, and children leaving in droves and going over to paganism and even satanism, because the church, like the OT times, the priests have become political, corrupt, followers of Moloch, rather than followers of God.

And those Moloch followers, always demanded, submission.

Gee, the apple really doesn't fall far from the 'tree' now does it? [tree, of iniquity]

Anyway, what I've been seeing of late...Peace, Jane